The Ultimate Retirement Roadmap: How to Manage Your Money for a Secure Future

Summary
In this conversation, Bob Mannor, a certified elder law attorney, interviews Greg Kurinec, a certified financial planner, about financial planning for retirement. Bob and Greg discuss the importance of comprehensive financial planning, the role of a certified financial planner (CFP), and the value of professional designations. They also cover topics like retirement activities and identity, the shift from pensions to individual retirement accounts (IRAs), tax planning in retirement, the benefits of a Roth IRA, and the implications of the SECURE Act. 
Both Bob and Greg emphasize the importance of collaboration between financial advisors and estate planning lawyers to create a well-rounded retirement plan.

Takeaways

• Comprehensive financial planning is crucial for a successful retirement, encompassing aspects including but not limited to investments, estate planning, risk management, and tax planning.
• The CFP designation is important when choosing a financial advisor, as it signifies that the individual has undergone rigorous education and maintains up-to-date knowledge in various areas of financial planning.
• When planning for retirement, it is essential to consider how you will spend your time and create a new identity beyond work.
• Tax planning plays a significant role in retirement, and strategies such as Roth conversions and strategic withdrawals can help minimize tax liabilities.
• Collaboration between financial advisors and lawyers is crucial to ensure that all aspects of a client's retirement plan align and work together effectively.

Advice From Your Advocates is Hosted by Attorney Bob Mannor, CELA
Guest: Gregory Kurinec, MRFC
Executive Producer: Savannah Meksto
Assistant Producers: Miranda Donaldson | Andi Conner | Samantha Noah

Learn more about Mannor Law Group. 

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:01

Welcome back to Advice from your Advocates. I'm Bob Manor. I'm a certified elder law attorney in Michigan and we're going to talk about some financial planning today. This is obviously something that is very important to seniors and those about to retire, so we're very fortunate to have certified financial planner Greg Kernick with us. Greg, how are you doing? I'm fantastic, Bob, Thanks for having me today. So tell us a little bit about your practice. I know you're in the south side south end of suburbs of Chicago so tell us a little bit about your practice and what's unique about it.

Speaker 2: 0:36

Yeah, you know I've been doing this for it'll be 18 years this month. Actually, I think I just passed my 18th anniversary from when I got licensed. So I've been doing this a long time and throughout my career I have always worked exclusively with people at or near retirement. So retirement planning has been my focus, and the way that I kind of fell into that niche is as I was first getting into the business, not knowing which direction to go, heads are spinning. I looked to my parents. I said, oh, I can work with people. My parents' age I can relate to that. Other people, as I was going through the business, related to me as being one of their kids and kind of growing, and as I've been doing this for the last 18 years, that's kind of how I fell into this retirement planning niche.

Speaker 2: 1:20

It's really something that I've become quite passionate about, obviously, if I'm continuing to do it. So at my firm, we focus on all the aspects of the financial planning. So everybody always wants to talk about investments. That's the sexy part of financial planning, but there's so many other areas that we need to focus on. You obviously know that estate planning is a huge aspect and that's something that I've become passionate about as well making sure that people have all their proper documents and decisions in place before something happens. But then we also talk about their risk management tax planning needs, and then, of course, we touch on investments as well.

Speaker 1: 2:00

Very good. So then, tell me a little bit, or share with our audience, what it means to be a CFP Certified Financial Planner. There's all kinds of letters that people put after their names. Some of them carry a little bit more weight than others, and I think CFP is one of those. So tell us what that means. Versus a registered investment advisor or a registered insurance person, what does a CFP mean?

Speaker 2: 2:27

So to me, a CFP means it's somebody, it's an individual that is going to take the time to look at all those different aspects of financial planning. You know a lot of financial advisors, financial planners whatever title they want to call themselves these days are focused on investments and things like that, because that's how they get paid. But looking at all the other planners whatever title they want to call themselves these days are focused on investments and things like that because that's how they get paid. But looking at all the other areas of the financial plan that you may not be compensated on, to make sure that the individual or the family that you're working with has all their ducks in a row, they've taken a look at everything. Now we can't plan for everything.

Speaker 2: 3:02

I use the line all the time that we plan and Dob laughs Okay, but that's why planning is fluid. Things are always going to change. You know we might have parents that die. We might have kids that return home that we weren't expecting. We might have market downturns or market, you know, bull markets that really help us in the long run. So I think a CFP is important to have because it is somebody that has gone through the necessary education. It's a rigorous program to go through. They've taken the necessary exam and then they have to maintain that designation with rigorous continuing education to stay up on all these different aspects of planning. That is why I hold the CFP as the gold standard when choosing a financial advisor.

Speaker 1: 3:46

And I think that's important because, while somebody can be excellent at their work, the idea that they've gone through this extra scrutiny, this extra testing, that they have to stay up to date, that provides an extra level of security for the folks that at least this person has made the effort to go through an extensive process to become a CFP.

Speaker 2: 4:09

Yeah, it is. I was fortunate enough when I'm a graduate at Purdue University and their program. I graduated with a degree in financial planning and their program was used to meet the standard of the CFP designation. So I did my education while I was in school for four years and then was able to take the test. For people that did not have that opportunity and there's more and more universities that are adopting that you know to have to not only work your job but then go to those classes afterwards to learn it it shows that this is what they want to do. They really want to put their education, their interest forward to provide the best service possible to their clients.

Speaker 1: 4:53

Not to get off sidetracked too much, but as a fellow Big Ten alumni, what do you think about the expansion of the athletic?

Speaker 2: 5:01

the Big Ten, when are we going to be at the Big 20 now, I think is, where are we going to be at the big 20 now, I think you know? Uh, I have a feeling we're going to be staying up for some late west coast games when we're playing at usc and oregon and things like that. But you know, we've been playing out in the pac-10 for you know, quite a few years for a game or two. So I don't think it's going to be too much of a change. But we have to keep up with the sec. That's where we're at.

Speaker 1: 5:25

If nothing else, we have to keep up with the FCC, and as long as we beat Ohio State, then I'm good with that.

Speaker 2: 5:32

There you go.

Speaker 1: 5:36

Okay, great. So let's talk about this. What is the typical, you know? So someone comes in and they're getting ready for retirement. What are some of the you know, top things that they need to start thinking about and what questions should they be asking, both in trying to find a financial planner, but also just the questions they need to be asking to be, you know, start getting ready for retirement.

Speaker 2: 6:03

So the first question I always ask anybody and this is whether they're sitting in my office for a meeting or I'm outside in the summertime at a barbecue or a cocktail party or something like that hey, what do you do? Oh, I'm a financial planner. I work with people in retirement. They go oh, yeah, I'm getting ready to retire. And I don't ask people how much do you have, how much do you spend, or anything like that. The first question I always ask everybody is what are you going to do? How are you going to spend your time in retirement? Because we have spent the last 30 or 40 years our identity has been our work all right, our work and our family Getting ready to retire. I'm assuming your family has moved out, moved on and they're starting families of their own. So now you have to fill your time. So these people that like to retire in May or June, when it's summertime yeah, it's really easy to fill time in the summertime. I can go fishing.

Speaker 2: 6:55

I can go out for walks. I can do that. Then I can get through the holidays. That's easy. But in the middle of January you're in the Midwest. We know how brutal it is. Okay, what are you going to do? Are you going to stare at your wife or your husband and be like, what are we going to do now? Because I'll tell you one thing they don't want you going to doctor's appointments with them. They don't want you going everywhere together. You have to come up with some new identity.

Speaker 2: 7:19

So when people are out there looking for a retirement advisor, when they're looking for a financial planner, they should be looking at somebody that is focusing on, again, the overall well-being, not just the mechanics and the technical aspects of the financial planning, but somebody that really has rooted interest in what they're going to do in retirement. I guess these are all things that we don't get paid for. But are you telling me how you want to spend your time? Ultimately, that's going to dictate how we financial plan, because that's going to tell me how much are you going to need to spend, how are you, where are you going to live, things like that, so it all does come together. So, again, not just focusing on the technical side but the behavioral side and really trying to understand the people as a whole side, and really trying to understand the people as a whole. So that's what you need to look for for a financial planner. Rates of returns that's great, but it's not everything. You can't judge everybody by rate of return.

Speaker 1: 8:14

Right, yeah, no, very good point. So you know, it's interesting how things have changed over the years, especially in the Midwest, where now for maybe our parents or maybe our grandparents, they were relying on maybe a pension that was a guaranteed pension, a defined benefit, and that's rarer and rarer these days. Right, a lot of people are relying on their 401k or similar qualified funds, and that's a little bit more tricky to manage, right?

Speaker 2: 8:47

Oh for sure, For sure. Back in the 70s, when they came out with ERISA, they put the onus on the employee to try and save for retirement. Now we're trying to save for retirement, raise our kids, maybe put aside a little bit of money to help our kids go to college, and now we have to try and put all the onus on us to retire. We don't have anything to fall back on. It's become quite cumbersome for a lot of people. You know, and it's sad when you see, when I see retirees and they retire from some of these larger companies, how much more successful they could be because the larger companies have more aggressive matching policies and benefits and things like that for those 401ks, versus if they were for a smaller company and really the complete onus is on them. They might be behind the eight ball a little bit. Now, with that being said, you know, Bob, we're looking at our parents or our grandparents that had pensions. They were retiring at what? 50, 55, maybe 60.

Speaker 2: 9:47

Well, now I see people retiring at 65 or 70 all day long, and it's not only because they don't have enough save. That's not the case for a lot of people. A lot of people they have to work till 65,. A because of healthcare okay, Because healthcare in the United States is very unaffordable, they have to work until they get to Medicare but B, when I even first got into the business, I was planning for 10 and 15-year retirements. Now, when I'm talking to people, I'm planning for 20 and 30-year retirements. We're all living a lot longer, so that money that we have saved, we have to stretch it a lot longer as well. So those are some of the changes that we're experiencing.

Speaker 1: 10:28

And you know, when it comes to these plans that are, the retirement plans, whether you know so, there's money that you have invested. That's what we would refer to as non-qualified, meaning you've already paid the taxes on it. But most of what we've just been talking about would be qualified funds, meaning that either there's some tax favorable benefits, like a Roth, or that you haven't paid the taxes on it. That can get complicated from a standpoint of knowing what should you do and making sure you have a plan to say okay, well, how do we address the taxes associated with these retirement plans? Right?

Speaker 2: 11:05

Well, and that's where my buddy if anybody's ever watched PBS sees Ed Slott on there the retirement tax time on that's coming and that's how my business has shifted so much in probably the last seven to 10 years. A lot of my focus has been on tax planning and how can we get these funds out of these 401ks and IRAs in the most tax favorable way possible. And a lot of that is hard for people to get their arms around because they've been thinking save, save, save, grow, grow, grow. But if we have a couple that has the million dollar 401k we really know you and I know it's not a million dollars, it's only about $700,000 because Uncle Sam's coming to get his chunk of it. So how can we take out this money in the most tax favored way possible?

Speaker 2: 11:53

And that might be some out of the box thinking that we have hey, it's delaying Social Security so we don't have as much income, so we can take more out of those accounts. It's taking more out of those accounts than maybe we need so that we can fill up those favorable tax brackets the best way that we can. So really do it as much of this tax planning upfront than having a plan for that, because, as we're getting money for retirement, usually those are our highest earning years. So there's not a whole lot that we can do. And the Roth IRA is a great thing. It just hasn't been around for this generation of retiree long enough for them to have taken great advantage of it. So, again, most of their money is in these pre-tax accounts. How do we get that out? And there has to be a plan in place to do that accounts.

Speaker 1: 12:42

How do we get that out? And there has to be a plan in place to do that. So I'm glad that you mentioned that about when to take the money out of an IRA or 401k. Before we get into the specifics of maybe being strategic about when to pay the taxes, I want you to talk a little bit about whether or not you should roll over your 401k to an individual retirement account. I know this is a very popular thing to do, but I've got lots of clients that still they just kind of this is what they got from their employer and they just leave it there even well after they've retired. Talk to us about some of the reasons why they might want to roll that over rather than leaving their old employers 401k.

Speaker 2: 13:24

Yeah, yeah, this has kind of become more of a polarizing topic Again. The investment advisor is thinking I need to get my hands on that money so I can get paid. All right, but as a financial planner, there's a lot of other things that we have to take into account. Number one is age. This is a common misunderstanding.

Speaker 2: 13:44

A lot of people don't realize that if you retire after the age of 55, you are allowed to start taking withdrawals from your 401k without any penalties. Now, most people have that age 59 and a half in their brain, but they don't realize that from a 401k after age 55, you can take withdrawals. Now, the downside to that any distributions from a 401k that's a mandatory 20% tax withholding. So if you're not in the 20% tax bracket or above, then you're going to be withholding too much. Now you'll get that money back in the form of a refund, but essentially the government gets to hold on to that.

Speaker 2: 14:22

The benefit of rolling it from a 401k to an IRA is the independence that you hold, the ability to invest it in the world of investments that are out there. So whether you want to buy stocks or bonds or ETFs or mutual funds or fixed annuities, variable annuities, any of that becomes available to you when you put it into an IRA. Now, typically with that, though, the costs are going to be a little bit higher for it to be in an IRA versus the 401k. Okay, in the 401k, costs are lower because we're dealing with a big group. They've negotiated lower costs for us.

Speaker 2: 14:57

It's very difficult to find those. A lot of people don't even realize they're paying fees on their 401k, but they are. Nobody does anything for free around here. So, keeping an eye on the cost difference between the 401k and the IRA, we also know that our 401ks are very limited on the investment options that we have in there. Those are pre-chosen for us. I've seen some 401ks with as few as six options and some 401ks with as many as over 100. So it all depends on the plan, and that's something that you need to keep in mind when you're trying to make this decision on whether to leave it in a 401k or roll it to an IRA. There's a lot of moving parts that need to be considered. It's not just hey, let's get it out or let's leave it in.

Speaker 1: 15:41

So one of the things that you had mentioned earlier and I want to get back to is the issue of being strategic about taxes, and I think this is very important. People don't think about it. I had a somewhat distant relative that I saw had posted and she was surprised when she turned, you know, 71 and a half now at 72 with the SECURE Act but when she got to the age where they required her to take money out and she was upset by it. She just didn't understand the concept of the IRA and she was upset by it because she said, well, now I have to take money out, I have to figure out how to spend it, and obviously you don't have to spend it just because you're taking it out of the IRA, right?

Speaker 2: 16:21

Right.

Speaker 1: 16:22

And so the concept I want to get at is the fact that you know, being knowledgeable about this and working with you know people that have experience in dealing with these questions. Because, like you said a minute ago, you know we're always taught save, save, save, stock as much as you can into the IRA. You know we're always taught save, save, save, stock as much as you can into the IRA. But then when you get to retirement, a lot of people assume that the only thing, the best possible answer, is just to take out the required minimum distributions. Of course, the problem with that is that you know now we're going to still have that tax issue. What did you call it? The tax bomb a minute ago? The tax time bomb, time bomb.

Speaker 1: 17:01

And so one of the things that people don't realize is somebody's going to pay taxes on that eventually. Well, it's either you or your kids, and your kids might be in that high income stage once they inherit it and they might end up having to pay a lot higher percentage of taxes. So this gets a bit complicated because we're not just looking at their circumstances. Sometimes you need to look at their kids' circumstances and say, well, if they're in a high tax bracket. Maybe we should start paying more of the taxes during your lifetime, while you're retired, and get that lower tax bracket right.

Speaker 2: 17:32

You just hit the nail on the head right there. There's a lot of considerations that go into IRA withdrawals, especially if we're going to go above and beyond the required minimum distributions, because that is a wake-up call to everybody that oh, now I have to start giving my distributions, I have to start taking them even though I don't want them. So that's my number one goal is to pay tax on my terms, not the government's terms. So trying to do that, but the considerations you just mentioned if my kids are going to inherit my IRA, okay, if they're going to be in a higher tax bracket than I am now, why wouldn't I? If, ultimately, I want to leave this money to them, pay lower taxes for them, whether it's just through straight distributions or Roth conversions or some sort of combination of that strategy, why wouldn't I?

Speaker 2: 18:21

However, if you're in a higher tax bracket than your kids are, then maybe you don't get aggressive on that conversion. Okay, maybe you do only take the requiremental distribution. Or what if you don't have children at all? And your point is to leave your IRA to charity Well, charities inherited completely tax-free. So then yeah, at that point you're just taking what little amount you have to and that's there as your safety net if you need it for long-term care or something like that, and then whatever's left over goes to the charity. So again, a lot of moving parts and things that we need to consider. I talked about tax planning, but that's why it's a plan, it's not, oh, everybody should do a Roth conversion or everybody should go as much as they can. It all depends on everybody's individual circumstance.

Speaker 1: 19:08

Yeah, exactly that's the same thing that we talk about all the time. When it comes to legal planning, people sometimes get into that same mode that you were just talking about, thinking that there should be that same consistency for everybody. And in our office everybody is treated uniquely. Everybody's plan is going to be very unique. It's the you know you said something about. Well, you know some people say, oh, you should just do the Roth conversion. Well, that's true for some people, but that's not going to be appropriate for everybody.

Speaker 1: 19:37

And that's the same thing when it comes to legal planning. People come in and they have their friend got a trust and so they want to trust. Or their friend got something we call a ladybird deed here in Michigan and they want a ladybird deed. Well, often what we have to do is look at it and say, okay, let's look at your circumstances and see if any of these options make sense and what might make sense for your specific circumstances, your specific assets, your specific family, and all of those variables should be considered. If you have somebody out there preaching and saying, well, everybody needs this then they're not given very good advice.

Speaker 2: 20:13

Right, the ability, and I make it a practice. I'm going to do it right now. This is going to be an Aussie moron. I make it a practice to never speak in absolute. So I'm using an absolute to say that, Because there is no absolute situation for everybody. Everybody is just a little bit different. Sure, is there a track for us to run on that we vary off our track a little bit? Yeah, everybody's going to take a turn left or right somewhere down the road. That's going to be different than the person before them.

Speaker 1: 20:45

So we've mentioned this a couple times and I think most people are very familiar with this concept of the Roth IRA. But just in case some of our listeners aren't, can you tell us a little bit more about what's the difference between a Roth IRA and a more traditional IRA?

Speaker 2: 21:00

The Roth IRA the greatest thing since sliced bread. So our Roth IRA versus the traditional Most of us are familiar with the traditional, where we make a contribution for the year and that contribution gets deducted from our income. So for anybody over the age of 50 in 2024, the contribution is $8,000. So if we made $100,000, we contribute $8,000 to our traditional IRA. We are only taxed on $92,000 of income. Okay, the Roth is just the opposite. We still have the same contribution limit. So, again, $8,000 for anybody over the age of 50, but we get taxed on that contribution. But what happens is we are never taxed on that money ever again. So we get to get tax-free growth for however long we leave it in the Roth IRA and then we get tax-free withdrawals on that growth when we decide to withdraw it.

Speaker 2: 21:56

One more added bonus to the Roth IRA is they don't have those required minimum distributions that traditional IRAs have. So again, it is a way to pay some tax now, especially in today's income tax environment where none of us have ever experienced anything lower before. So why wouldn't we pay tax now? Let it grow tax-free for the next 20 or 30 years and, if we need it, be able to withdraw it completely tax-free. So that is the benefit that we have with the Roth IRA. I think it's fantastic. As I mentioned before, the retirees that are coming up now just haven't had enough exposure to it to be able to accumulate as much money. So that doesn't mean that you don't have a't mean that you don't have a successful retirement because you don't have a Roth IRA, or that you won't be able to get any money into a Roth IRA. We just have to do some more planning for it Right.

Speaker 1: 22:50

So, like you mentioned, you can do some conversions and it's tricky. You got to make sure you're working with you know, experienced professionals, but you can under certain circumstances and you got to make sure you're arranging the money properly. But there can be some conversions from a traditional to a Roth right.

Speaker 2: 23:10

Absolutely, Absolutely. And again, you know, when we're looking at the traditional IRA versus the Roth IRA, again a lot of our minds are pre-programmed I want the tax deduction now. It's going to help me now. It's going to help me now. Let's think of it from a farmer's perspective. I have this bag of seed in front of me where I have this field of crop where I'd rather pay the tax on this bag of seed or this whole field of crops. I'd rather pay the tax on a seed right now and let it grow into that field of crops and never have to pay tax on it again.

Speaker 1: 23:40

So we mentioned a couple times in passing this SECURE Act, and so the SECURE Act took effect, at least by law, on January 1st 2020. Since it got passed in late December and took effect just a couple weeks later, the IRS was not prepared to actually tell us what the law meant, and that's what a lot of laws these days, in fact, most laws.

Speaker 1: 24:15

they pass the law, the politician passes the law, and then the bureaucrats tell us what it means, and so they're still issuing new rules on the SECURE Act. But why don't you tell us a little bit about the SECURE Act and how some of that might affect some of this?

Speaker 2: 24:29

Yeah. So some of the biggest changes on the SECURE Act you had mentioned it previously the Require Minimum Distribution Age. That was moved from 70.5 to 72. Then with SECURE Act 2.0, they moved it to 73, beginning last year, and then 10 years so it'll be in 2033, they're going to move the required minimum distribution age to 75. So they've realized, hey, people are living longer, we can push out this R&D age a little bit further. So they've given us a little bit of relief from that standpoint. As far as us planners, it gives us a couple extra years to do some more planning for the requirement on distribution. So that was the first thing.

Speaker 2: 25:10

But I think the biggest change and the most confusing change and the one they still haven't figured out yet is how we inherit these IRAs or these pre-tax accounts 401ks, 403bs, things like that. What they did is they've taken away our ability to stretch out, to inherit an IRA and stretch out those distributions over our lifetime. That was such a valuable benefit that we were able to do to take this tax time bomb, okay, and then give it to our kids or whoever we choose, and then they would have to take a requirement on distribution, but it was based on their life expectancy, so it's usually very small and there was no end point, so it's very, very beneficial. What they've done now is they've shortened it from our lifetime to 10 years. Ok, so if I inherit a million dollar IRA, I've got 10 years to get that million dollars out of the IRA and out of my tax return. Now this is where it gets fun.

Speaker 2: 26:09

Okay, there's convoluted law written. There's convoluted understanding of the law. There's convoluted interpretation. It's all weird where, if the person that you inherited from was receiving a required minimum distribution, then you have to receiving a required minimum distribution, then you have to take a required minimum distribution. But if they weren't receiving a required minimum distribution, then you don't and it just has to be out in 10 years. But, like you said, they haven't really straightened it out yet. So Secure Act came out in 2020. We're four years in and they're saying, okay, well, if you haven't taken a required minimum distribution for the last four years, we're not going to analyze you or anything, but maybe you should start considering it. And people are still waiting saying, well, there's no law that says that I have to. So it's very, very confusing and, depending on the people, it actually does make a difference.

Speaker 2: 27:02

I have some clients that did inherit IRAs and they're five years from retirement, so they're thinking to themselves well, I'm not gonna take any distributions now, I don't need the money now. They're not requiring me per se to take a distribution. I'm gonna take it for those next five years after I retire where I have no income. That way, I'll be able to get that money out in a tax-favored manner and that's their plan going forward. And again it gets so confusing and the law is not well-written or well-interpreted by anybody. They're basically not enforcing it. So it'll be funny to see what happens in 2030 when this first 10-year period comes up, and to see there'll be a mad rush because if we have a younger beneficiary, they might say I'm going to let that grow for the next 10 years and I'll just take one hit real quick and call it a day. So it's really confusing. I wish I had better answers for it, but unfortunately we don't at this time.

Speaker 1: 28:02

No, I think the way you described it is exactly right. And the thing is, though, even in this time period of confusion, it's so important for folks to get good advice from experienced professionals, because, when you think about it even that last scenario that you mentioned you have a younger person that says, hey, I'm just going to let it continue to grow for 10 years. What that might end up doing is causing you to put yourself into the highest tax bracket. If you're a younger person and you're in a low tax bracket and you let it grow for 10 years, that 10th year between federal and estate income taxes, you might pay 40% in taxes on that income. That maybe it was worth it to let it grow for 10 years. Maybe it would have been better to try to keep yourself in the lower tax bracket.

Speaker 1: 28:50

But the key on this is everybody's going to be different. So if you inherit an IRA and if it's a small IRA, it's $10,000 or $20,000, not that big of a deal but if it's a substantial IRA that you've inherited, it's really important to be strategic about, even with the not complete certainty about what the IRS is doing, to be strategic about when we take that money and when we incur the taxes on that. It can make a big difference in how much money you actually get to keep.

Speaker 2: 29:21

Yeah, and the advice that I'm giving to my clients is we're always going to err on the side of caution. So I'm advising people, you know what? Let's take some RMDs from these accounts, just in case they come back after us. I think that's the safe and prudent thing to do until we get some better understanding of what direction they want to move with the law.

Speaker 1: 29:41

Well. So, greg, I really appreciate you being with us today. You've gotten some really good information here. I do want to talk to you about one last thing, and that is the interaction between financial advisors and lawyers. This is something that I think is pretty interesting, because some people might assume that that's a standard practice that when a financial advisor is working on something and they know that their client has a lawyer that's working on the estate plan, or when a lawyer has an estate plan and they know they have a financial advisor, that at some point the two communicate and make sure that the plan is pointed in the same direction. That's certainly what we do in our office. I think that is not the pointed in the same direction. That's certainly what we do in our office. I think that is not the standard in the industry. So, if you can, kind of comment on the importance of the financial advisor and the lawyers working together, oh, absolutely, and I think that goes back to the standard practices of a CFP.

Speaker 2: 30:38

I think my biggest role is almost to play quarterback, and I know I don't like to use sports analogies a lot or I try not to, but I think it's the simplest one to explain.

Speaker 2: 30:47

Matt, you have to have all these different areas that we're planning Now. I said I'm passionate about estate planning, but I'm not a lawyer. I have to communicate with the attorneys to make sure that, hey, this is what I'm seeing on my end. Do you concur with this? You've had conversations, I've had conversations. Let's have a meeting of the minds to come up with this strategy together. If we're just expecting the other professional to figure it out for us without having all the information, because we know that people always know the right questions to ask or know the right way to answer the questions, to give us all the details. So more heads are going to be better for us to come to a good interaction, a good conclusion. So I think trying to bring in all the different professionals that we have, especially attorneys and CPAs and things like that, to make a better off overall result for our clients, and that is going to put everybody in a much better position.

Speaker 1: 31:44

Well, thank you, Greg. So we've been talking to Greg Kernick, a certified financial planner from Illinois in the south suburbs of Chicago. Greg, if people have questions, what's the best way of getting a hold of you?

Speaker 2: 31:59

So best way to get a hold of me is to email me greg at gregkernickcom. Okay, if you wanted to call, I'm at 630-318-0655. My website I'm going through a rebrand right now so I'll get you the new website here. I should have it by the end of this week. Bob, if you want to put it in your show notes, I'll get that over to you. But otherwise, yeah, give me a call or shoot me an email.

Speaker 1: 32:24

And I wanted to specify Kernick isn't quite spelled the way it sounds. It's K-U-R-I-N-E-C, so it's kind of a silent I in there. Right, it does, it does, okay, well, great. Thanks so much and thanks for listening. If you found this an interesting conversation and you would like to hear more about our podcast or any of the issues that we deal with aging and aging adults, don't forget to subscribe on any of the podcast stations that you listen to. Thanks again.

Speaker 2: 32:56

Thanks, Bob.

Speaker 1: 32:59

All right.

Speaker 2: 33:00

Very good.